{"id":412337,"date":"2019-08-11T14:15:42","date_gmt":"2019-08-11T11:15:42","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/uatv.ua\/head-head-interview-will-zelensky-putin-agree-donbas-situation\/"},"modified":"2019-08-11T14:15:42","modified_gmt":"2019-08-11T11:15:42","slug":"head-head-interview-will-zelensky-putin-agree-donbas-situation","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/uatv.ua\/en\/head-head-interview-will-zelensky-putin-agree-donbas-situation\/","title":{"rendered":"Head to Head Interview: Will Zelensky and Putin Agree on Donbas Situation?"},"content":{"rendered":"<p><center><iframe loading=\"lazy\" src=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/embed\/Z4hX_ZQrn9k\" width=\"560\" height=\"315\" frameborder=\"0\" allowfullscreen=\"allowfullscreen\"><\/iframe><\/center>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky held a telephone conversation with French President Emanuel Macron, during which he informed about the deaths of four Ukrainian soldiers in Donbas and also called on the leaders of the Normandy Four countries for a special meeting. The French leader supported the initiative and added that he would contact Russian President Vladimir Putin and German Chancellor Angela Merkel to get their consent for this initiative.<\/p>\n<p>To discuss this we welcome to the studio today Mykhailo Samus, he is the Deputy Director for International Affairs at the Center for Army, Conversion, and Disarmament Studies.<\/p>\n<p><strong>\u2014 Hello and thank you for joining us!<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>\u2014 Hello!<\/p>\n<p><strong>\u2014 So just to remind our audience, on August 6, four Ukrainian soldiers were killed in shelling in the Donbas conflict zone, and this happened during the so-called &#8220;harvest ceasefire.&#8221; After this, the Ukrainian president Volodymyr Zelensky said that now it\u2019s absolutely clear who does not want peace. He had a phone conversation with Vladimir Putin, although it\u2019s not clear what Vladimir Putin actually answered, and Ukraine\u2019s representative in Minsk negotiations Roman Bezsmertnyi said that now the controllability of the militants is at a very low level. In your opinion, what could this mean?<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>\u2014 To be honest, I really don\u2019t understand what I\u2019m talking about, because for the last five years we understand who is who, and from my estimation, we don\u2019t have any militants or guerillas in the occupied Donbas, we only have the occupying forces. It\u2019s actually not really important what they look like. Guerillas look like Russian soldiers, but it\u2019s Russian soldiers anyway because all of them are under contract with the Russian Armed Forces, FSB, and GRU. In our center, for five years, we\u2019ve known that we have a civilian administration for occupation and military occupation administration on military occupation forces by Russia. And as I understand, for our president Zelensky, as he just arrived at the office, it\u2019s very important to understand the, let\u2019s say, the space and the framework of this conflict, because he was pretty far from all of this stuff, and now he is trying to understand together with our foreign partners. Because he called Mr. Putin and asked him to ask people in Donetsk to stop shelling Ukrainian forces. I think it doesn\u2019t make sense and it\u2019s against the logic of all of the Ukrainian position for now. And I think that unfortunately, the new administration in Ukraine doesn\u2019t have a real strategy and concept for this conflict.<\/p>\n<p><strong>\u2014 In your personal opinion, this concept, what should it be?<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>\u2014 It depends, of course, on the understanding of the conflict by the administration, because they have the responsibility, not me, and not you. During the election campaign, candidate Zelensky said that we need to find a way for peace. But of course, we understand that peace means capitulation or victory. For Putin, peace, when we\u2019re talking about Ukraine, is the victory of Russia, not some compromise and not, let\u2019s say, a step back. I think Zelensky should understand this as soon as possible, but it\u2019s not easy to understand for him, and I think that these, let\u2019s say, negotiations and maybe Normandy format meeting will be very important for him to understand reality.<\/p>\n<p><strong>\u2014 Speaking of the Normandy format meeting, president Zelensky said that he has urged all the other members to have an urgent meeting. Just like you said earlier, the war has been going on for the sixth year now and we\u2019ve had plenty of Normandy format meetings. Would the upcoming meeting, if it does happen, will it change anything?<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>\u2014 I think it\u2019s very important for president Zelensky to understand reality, but it\u2019s not important for all of the process of finding a way from the conflict. I mean, we had a lot of meetings in Normandy format and we understand that in this Normandy format, unfortunately, if we\u2019re talking about the reality, we have a free mediator in one country, Ukraine, which it looks like we need some help. So France, Germany, and Russia are not, let\u2019s say, a side of the conflict. And Russia, they present themselves like they are not a part of the conflict in the \u201cUkrainian crisis.\u201d And Ukraine needs to find, the Kyiv leadership needs to find a way to speak with Donetsk leaders, and this is one of the main requirements or one of the main ideas by Mr. Putin: to find an approach for direct negotiations between Kyiv and Donetsk. And of course, it\u2019s against the reality, but unfortunately, Berlin and Paris are not clearly against this, let\u2019s say, the approach of Moscow. So this is a problem for president Zelensky because when he tries to give an impulse in the Normandy format, I\u2019m not sure it will change the Normandy format. That\u2019s why I propose to destroy the Normandy format and try to build something new together with Washington, for example, and London and the European Union, not Paris and Berlin. Because I\u2019m not sure that Berlin and Paris are the subjects we need to have on the table.<\/p>\n<p><strong>\u2014 Do you think we need more parties in the discussion?<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>\u2014 Yeah, I\u2019m sure because we have a deadlock on these, we understand that Paris and Berlin have their own interest in this. For them, the main interest is to find the solution, to make this conflict stop, maybe frozen, maybe with the victory of Russia, maybe a capitulation of Ukraine. To be honest, they don\u2019t care. They just want to stop the conflict, to stop the fighting, to stop the killing of the people. But if we are talking about the national interests of Ukraine, of course, they don\u2019t care. They care about their own interests. And that\u2019s why I propose to give more space for other countries like the United States, European Union as an organization, because it\u2019s more complicated to find one voice of a country\u2019s, but I\u2019m sure it could be more, let\u2019s say, honest and more maybe pragmatic compared to the voice of Berlin, which has absolutely clear interest, for example, in the energy sector to stop the conflict.<\/p>\n<p><strong>\u2014 Right, economically motivated.<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>\u2014 And in any case, to stop the conflict and continue business with Russia in the energy sector or other sectors of business, they have a lot of investments in Russia.<\/p>\n<p><strong>\u2014 Well, the United States has already made a proposition this week to organize a meeting with the special representative for Ukraine from America, Kurt Volker, and the Russian presidential aide Vladislav Surkov. Of course, there is no response from Russia, but in your opinion, how could this meeting change the course of the conflict, if that\u2019s possible?<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>\u2014 Now we have two problems here. The first problem is that President Trump doesn\u2019t need to have the Ukrainian case in his presidential campaign, because the active phase will start very soon, and I\u2019m not sure that the Ukrainian case could be successful for him totally. Remember the North Korea case, the Balkan case, Iran. What else? Actually, a lot of tries for Trump to be successful in the international arena. We don\u2019t have any success stories, and I\u2019m not sure that, of course, Mr. Putin understands it, the second problem is connected to him. If he finds motivation for himself to agree on this format, a new format together with the United States. For example, if Trump says that we will meet every two months together on the TV, on the media, and Putin will be interested in this, I think it could be one of the motivations for Putin to agree on this new format together with Trump and the UK and other leaders. So to be presented on the high level of international relations. But otherwise, I\u2019m not sure that Putin is really interested in stopping the conflict, because this conflict with Ukraine is a great instrument, of course, to influence Ukraine, to keep Ukraine under control. Because can you imagine that now we don\u2019t have any conflict between Ukraine and Russia, Putin will be out of Ukraine totally. So this conflict and the Crimea, of course, are instruments to keep Ukraine closer and keep Ukraine under control and try to make even more. But on the other side, this conflict is an instrument to be at the top of the international politics for Putin. Because if we look at the Russian reality, not like we understand it in our still common informational space between Ukraine and Russia that \u201cRussia is a great country, Russia is almost the same as the Soviet Union.\u201d In reality, Russia now is a simple regional state with a very weak economy and old military, and Russia cannot be a real competitor for China and the United States now. But in informational reality, we have this strong empire, and Putin tries to keep this image. And Ukraine, the conflict with Ukraine&#8230;<\/p>\n<p><strong>\u2014 For the Russian citizens also.<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>\u2014 Yeah, of course. The main purpose of Putin is to keep the authority, keep the power inside of the country for him and his team. And this is a great way to keep it, the Ukrainian crisis, the so-called Ukrainian crisis, the conflict with Ukraine. So for president Zelensky, it\u2019s a huge problem to understand that Putin doesn\u2019t want to finish&#8230;<\/p>\n<p><strong>\u2014 To make peace.<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>\u2014 To make peace, of course. Putin could talk about it all the time, every second, but I am not sure that this is a motivation for Mr. Putin to stop this war.<\/p>\n<p><strong>\u2014 We all hope that the conflict will resolve eventually with the most optimistic outcome for Ukraine as possible. Thank you so much for coming.<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>\u2014 Thank you.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>&nbsp; Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky held a telephone conversation with French President &#8230;<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":3,"featured_media":412338,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"footnotes":""},"categories":[49,36415],"tags":[],"sources":[],"class_list":["post-412337","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-news-en","category-11473-news-en"],"acf":[],"yoast_head":"<!-- This site is optimized with the Yoast SEO plugin v28.0 - https:\/\/yoast.com\/product\/yoast-seo-wordpress\/ -->\n<title>Head to Head Interview: Will Zelensky and Putin Agree on Donbas Situation? - Freedom<\/title>\n<meta name=\"robots\" content=\"index, follow, max-snippet:-1, max-image-preview:large, max-video-preview:-1\" \/>\n<link rel=\"canonical\" href=\"https:\/\/uatv.ua\/en\/head-head-interview-will-zelensky-putin-agree-donbas-situation\/\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:locale\" content=\"en_US\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:type\" content=\"article\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:title\" content=\"Head to Head Interview: Will Zelensky and Putin Agree on Donbas Situation? 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