Kursk operation and permission of strikes got Putin in troubles. Interview with John Herbst

John Herbst. Screenshot: uatv.ua

Members of the European Parliament have called on the EU countries to lift restrictions on the use of Western weapons systems against legitimate military targets in Russia.

Permission to strike deep into Russian turf with Western weapon is a shortcut to just and long lasting peace.

Here is an interview with John Herbst, Former US Ambassador to Ukraine and Uzbekistan, Senior director of the Atlantic Council’s Eurasia Center.

— President Zelenskyy announced a four-point plan for Ukraine’s victory. My specific interest is in one of Zelenskyy’s interviews where he said that all the points of Ukraine’s victory plan, which he intends to present to U.S. President Joe Biden, depend on Biden’s decision, not Vladimir Putin’s.

Do you think that after Kursk and the recent successful attacks on oil refineries, Putin looks like he’s out of the big game, and barely anything depends on him anymore?

— Ukraine has had a very successful two months. The Kursk offensive, which had people in Washington concerned a month ago, has turned into a great success.

Ukraine has shown it can hold on to that territory and seems to be defeating the anticipated Russian counteroffensive.

The Russian offensive at Pokrovsk seems to have stalled, and there are now reports that Russia has moved troops from Pokrovsk to Kursk because Putin is embarrassed that Ukrainian forces have taken parts of Russian territory and are successfully occupying them.

And then, of course, you had this spectacular strike on an ammunition depot in Tver region earlier this week, along with the ongoing exceptional strikes on Russian oil refineries since March.

It’s worth noting that Jake Sullivan embarrassed himself when he came to Ukraine to tell them to stop those strikes, but Zelenskyy told him no. So, Ukraine has had a good run.

However, Ukraine still greatly needs American support. We have to ensure that our supplemental aid package gets renewed, possibly during the lame-duck session after our elections this year in Congress.

Biden needs to stop being intimidated by Putin’s nuclear threats. It looks ridiculous that we still refuse to allow Ukraine to use ATACMS, which are medium-range missiles, against Russian targets in Russia, even after Ukraine has taken Russian territory and struck ammo depots without Putin going nuclear.

The U.S. remains intimidated, and it’s frankly bad policy—I’m embarrassed as an American citizen.

— Thank you for your honesty, but how can we translate that into Biden stopping this intimidation? Putin was waving his nuclear threats, and Ukraine crossed all the West’s supposed red lines. What is the real fear? Is it politics or genuine intimidation?

— I’ve heard from senior administration officials that they’ve used this as an excuse not to provide things to Ukraine. There was also a strange performance by a Pentagon deputy spokesperson who said that just because we haven’t crossed any Russian red lines doesn’t mean they don’t exist, showing how they’re thinking.

When Blinken was headed to Kyiv last week, Ukrainians expected that the prohibition on using ATACMS against Russian targets would be lifted, but it didn’t happen.

His trip turned out to be embarrassing, likely because Putin ramped up the nuclear rhetoric again.

— Members of the European Parliament have called on EU countries to lift restrictions on Western weapon systems against legitimate military targets in Russia. They believe that without lifting these restrictions, Ukraine won’t be able to fully exercise its right to self-defense.

So, my question is, who else should we call to finally make it clear that we’re sitting on the means of survival and can’t use them?

— Zelenskyy is doing a good job trying to make his case, but he faces significant resistance from Washington and Berlin.

I think at some point, we will allow Ukraine to use ATACMS on targets in Russia, but I don’t know when—maybe tomorrow, maybe in 2026. The ATACMS are not the be-all, end-all.

We should be sending Ukraine tomahawks, which can go thousands of miles and strike deep into Russia.

However, the U.S. hasn’t addressed this conflict by declaring that Putin must lose and Ukraine must win.

If they did, they’d be strategizing with Ukrainian leadership to provide the necessary advanced weapons like tomahawks. Russia identifies the U.S. as its principal adversary.

Putin reflects the authoritarian tendencies seen in Russian history, especially during the Soviet period, but these predate it.

— Looking at what Ukraine is doing with drones, such as the strike on that Russian depot, it makes me wonder—if Ukraine had a missile capable of reaching Moscow, and the Kremlin was on fire like that depot, would the West still be intimidated?

— I hope Ukraine develops such a missile soon and uses it on military and strategic targets in Russia, like transportation systems and economic infrastructure.

I strongly recommend that Ukraine avoid targeting the Kremlin or civilian areas in Russia—that would be a serious mistake.

But beyond that, it’s fair game, and the U.S. would likely just wring its hands as Ukraine did it, just like with the oil refineries.

Read also: The risks of not defeating Russia are far greater than the risks of supporting Ukraine fully. Interview with Kurt Volker